Thank you !! Voddie Baucham has said the same thing. I want to understand this important truth. I grew up dispensational without even knowing what that was. Now in my 50s I’m learning to question what I was taught. Thank you for all you do!
JD, I will not argue with what you say, but I will ask again: Will you be content that the Jews within Israel are exterminated, and a remainder driven out, to have no homeland in the world? Would not that remainder then be exposed to persecution, as Jews have always been persecuted, at least since the time of Christ? Is that acceptable to you? The better question is this: Is that acceptable to God? Is it not Christian theology that all humans are God's children, and that God desires all to turn to Christ, and to be saved? And is not that turning at least theoretically possible, for all who live? The foregoing are the reasons why I support the continuing existence of Israel as a predominantly Jewish nation, and its right to defend itself as such.
Interestingly, American Jews did not support Zionism for a very long time, because they had it very good in America. The thought that there could be no same haven for Jews, is simply untrue. America was once that safe haven. And as we see now, Palestine is not a save haven at all.
Why does this particular people deserve an ethno-state, and none other?
"America was once that safe haven." Can the Jews count upon the continuation of that? I think not. My answer to your question is, because this particular people has been historically persecuted, even to attempted genocide, beyond any other. As for safety in Israel, that is what they are still trying to achieve. They have not done badly so far, and I am hoping they will ultimately succeed.
The Jews can count on America being the safe haven as much as any other American. The U.S. has proven itself a trustworthy sanctuary for Jews, more so than any place on Earth.
Many different ethnic groups have been historically persecuted, including the Kurds, Palestinians, Armenians, Romanis (gypsies) and so on, and none are somehow entitled to their own ethnostate. And most of those groups, unlike the Jews, have not been repeatedly expunged from various nations for the same continued bad behavior.
Jews should not be treated worse than any other group, but they are not entitled to special treatment. If anyone has a right to Palestine, surely it would be Palestinians, and not Europeans like Benjamin Netanyahu or other Ashkenazis who don’t even have ancestry in the region.
But all that aside, the fact is, Palestine is obviously not a safe haven for Jews. Does it appear to you Jews are safe in Palestine? It’s perhaps the most dangerous place on Earth for Jews. It would require ethnically cleansing the Middle East of all Arabs to make it safe for them (which it appears is a price that Israelis are willing to pay, is morally untenable for the Christian to support).
If the price of Jewish safety for 7 million Israelis is endless war with nearly 200 million Arab neighbors, it’s a no-brainer that the price is too high.
Currently, Jews are the heads of state in more than 35 nations, from Ukraine to Mexico. The notion that these nations are not safe places for Jews, when Jews literally run those nations, is not a serious argument.
"....the Jews....have been repeatedly expunged from various nations for the same continued bad behavior."
I think the "bad behavior" of Jews is mostly this: They tend to be more successful than other ethnic groups. That is an offense to pride, the original sin. And from pride, there is anti-Semitism. And expungement. Or worse. And that will continue. This is why I believe Jews need a homeland.
As for killing in the Middle East, that will stop, when the attempt to exterminate and eliminate the Jews from what you call Palestine, what I call Israel, stops. And ultimately, it will stop, when realization finally arrives that the attempt will not succeed.
I mean, that's their narrative, sure. Make of it what you will, the behavior that nearly every nation who's expunged them has referenced is related to banking or predatory lending, sexual depravity (the promotion of prostitution and sex trafficking) and in one way or another, the mistreatment of lower classes.
In terms of the promotion of sexual depravity, this seems to be a historically valid complaint. Jews have always been at the forefront of the sexual revolution, LGBTQ ideology, transgenderism, etc. That's a pretty verifiable fact, and well documented.
I'd also say it's hard to deny a role in predatory banking, and a lot of sociological work has been done from scholarly resources - including Thomas Sowell - to explain that.
Lee, do you not think that at the end of the day, chalking it up as "jealousy of success" is a little reductionist? Does that not seem a little curiously too simplistic?
I believe it's related their status as diaspora. Most men who have a homeland will strive for civic virtue, putting their homeland above themselves (or at least, they claim they do, and make a show of it). Without a homeland, Jews have put Jews first, prioritizing their own interests above that of whatever nation they've resided in. This is why in nearly every country that has expunged them, the native people claim that they are undermining the health and wellbeing of the nation for their own interests and profit.
No Lee, that's not true. It is not Christian theology that all humans are God's children.
John 1:11-13
English Standard Version
11 He came to his own,[a] and his own people[b] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Anna, I would say that all are God's children, and many reject Him. To be created in the image of God is to be a child of God, Genesis 1:27. And as you quote, "He came to his own," that is, to His children. And God does desire all to turn to Christ, and to live. Ezekiel 18:21-23, Ezekiel 33:11, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Matthew 23:37. For those who reject, repentance and turning to acceptance is always possible for so long as mortal life continues. I would say that those who have rejected their innate status as children of God have the opportunity, continuing opportunity, to return to that status.
You, I and anybody can say anything.. It's what God has spoken by HIS Word, not ours. We must ask & pray for understanding, BEG for it, if are hearts have been enabled to receive the truth, you will receive it by HIS grace.🙏
God established a covenant with Israel for a specific purpose. God re-established Israel for a specific purpose. Namely to make Himself known. Israel reveals from its genesis to the end-of-days, in entirety, the mercy of God. This truth is cause for great rejoicing. No man, nor satan himself, will thwart the plans & purposes of God. Amen.
Ps 2:6; Ez 36:22-37:28; Dan 9:24-27; Zech 12-14; Rom 11; Rev 7 to name but a few.
"The Lord said to Cain, 'Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.' " Genesis 4:6.
"If you do well, will you not be accepted?" Is this not God, telling Cain he has the power of choice?
"But Lord, I cannot do well. I am predestined as not among Your elect."
"Yes. I know. I'm just messing with you."
No. I do not think so.
The Bible, Old Testament and New, is one long, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, urging by God to us to make the right choices, that we may be received to His kingdom. Why does He urge, if all of His urging is meaningless, because He has preselected? And what do you do with the passages that I cited, that God desires all to be saved?
Eternal contradiction. Eternal mystery. Neither you nor I will resolve it. No one ever has. But I feel it necessary to choose one or the other. "Got to be this or that," as a blues song says. And I choose free will, since I believe life to be devoid of meaning without it.
Lee, salvation is completely of the Lord! You must be born again by the Spirit or one cannot even see the Kingdom of God, let alone choose wisely! Man has absolutely nothing to bring but his sin when it comes to salvation. That's it! Until the Lord granted me,in His grace, understanding, I too was confused like you. 🙏's Lee😊
If we have "absolutely nothing" to bring, then absolutely nothing is what we are. If it somehow comforts you to believe you are absolutely nothing, and everyone else is also, and we all have no more meaning than a robot, or a stone, then believe that. I do not. One question: Why does God choose to elect stone you, and stone others, while not electing other stone others? What is the guide to His decision making there? Or why did the Lord confer His grace of understanding upon stone you, and not upon other stones? After all, you had "absolutely nothing" to do with that, since you and everyone else have "absolutely nothing" to bring. To ask my question in another way, why does God care, why should He even have grace, upon ANY "absolutely nothing" stone?
I appreciate this teaching so much JD. I especially appreciate you highlighting the meaning of Romans 1118. That unlocked a key for me. I'm also really looking forward to going back and reading your previous work on."Not of Abraham & "Unrelated to Abraham."
BTW – I received a masters degree from a dispensational Baptist seminary, and the only class in which I didn't get an A was in Eschatology. I think it's because the grammatical historical hermeneutic that I'd been taught in that seminary overcame the eschatology I was learning. I found the dispensational eschatology very confusing, and it didn't match up with what I was reading in the text.
I greatly appreciate the dispensational love for the authority of Scripture, and for their desire to study not just the New Testament Scriptures, but also the Old Testament Scriptures. And I understand why they want to maintain a distinction between Israel and the church....but I think that Romans 11:18 text acknowledges the difference while clearly stating that we are one in Christ (all of us are Israel) – as was the point of your blog post today. Thank you.
Thank you again for correctly putting dispensationalism into the dustbin of theological lunacy. I thank God that Scripture finally laid bare the misguided fantasy I steadfastly held to for over 40 years.
Also, thank you for correctly pointing out that God's chosen is His church. Through the generations, nothing has invalidated the prophetic message of blessings and curses to the Jewish people.
Thank you !! Voddie Baucham has said the same thing. I want to understand this important truth. I grew up dispensational without even knowing what that was. Now in my 50s I’m learning to question what I was taught. Thank you for all you do!
JD, I will not argue with what you say, but I will ask again: Will you be content that the Jews within Israel are exterminated, and a remainder driven out, to have no homeland in the world? Would not that remainder then be exposed to persecution, as Jews have always been persecuted, at least since the time of Christ? Is that acceptable to you? The better question is this: Is that acceptable to God? Is it not Christian theology that all humans are God's children, and that God desires all to turn to Christ, and to be saved? And is not that turning at least theoretically possible, for all who live? The foregoing are the reasons why I support the continuing existence of Israel as a predominantly Jewish nation, and its right to defend itself as such.
Interestingly, American Jews did not support Zionism for a very long time, because they had it very good in America. The thought that there could be no same haven for Jews, is simply untrue. America was once that safe haven. And as we see now, Palestine is not a save haven at all.
Why does this particular people deserve an ethno-state, and none other?
"America was once that safe haven." Can the Jews count upon the continuation of that? I think not. My answer to your question is, because this particular people has been historically persecuted, even to attempted genocide, beyond any other. As for safety in Israel, that is what they are still trying to achieve. They have not done badly so far, and I am hoping they will ultimately succeed.
The Jews can count on America being the safe haven as much as any other American. The U.S. has proven itself a trustworthy sanctuary for Jews, more so than any place on Earth.
Many different ethnic groups have been historically persecuted, including the Kurds, Palestinians, Armenians, Romanis (gypsies) and so on, and none are somehow entitled to their own ethnostate. And most of those groups, unlike the Jews, have not been repeatedly expunged from various nations for the same continued bad behavior.
Jews should not be treated worse than any other group, but they are not entitled to special treatment. If anyone has a right to Palestine, surely it would be Palestinians, and not Europeans like Benjamin Netanyahu or other Ashkenazis who don’t even have ancestry in the region.
But all that aside, the fact is, Palestine is obviously not a safe haven for Jews. Does it appear to you Jews are safe in Palestine? It’s perhaps the most dangerous place on Earth for Jews. It would require ethnically cleansing the Middle East of all Arabs to make it safe for them (which it appears is a price that Israelis are willing to pay, is morally untenable for the Christian to support).
If the price of Jewish safety for 7 million Israelis is endless war with nearly 200 million Arab neighbors, it’s a no-brainer that the price is too high.
Currently, Jews are the heads of state in more than 35 nations, from Ukraine to Mexico. The notion that these nations are not safe places for Jews, when Jews literally run those nations, is not a serious argument.
"....the Jews....have been repeatedly expunged from various nations for the same continued bad behavior."
I think the "bad behavior" of Jews is mostly this: They tend to be more successful than other ethnic groups. That is an offense to pride, the original sin. And from pride, there is anti-Semitism. And expungement. Or worse. And that will continue. This is why I believe Jews need a homeland.
As for killing in the Middle East, that will stop, when the attempt to exterminate and eliminate the Jews from what you call Palestine, what I call Israel, stops. And ultimately, it will stop, when realization finally arrives that the attempt will not succeed.
I mean, that's their narrative, sure. Make of it what you will, the behavior that nearly every nation who's expunged them has referenced is related to banking or predatory lending, sexual depravity (the promotion of prostitution and sex trafficking) and in one way or another, the mistreatment of lower classes.
In terms of the promotion of sexual depravity, this seems to be a historically valid complaint. Jews have always been at the forefront of the sexual revolution, LGBTQ ideology, transgenderism, etc. That's a pretty verifiable fact, and well documented.
I'd also say it's hard to deny a role in predatory banking, and a lot of sociological work has been done from scholarly resources - including Thomas Sowell - to explain that.
Lee, do you not think that at the end of the day, chalking it up as "jealousy of success" is a little reductionist? Does that not seem a little curiously too simplistic?
I believe it's related their status as diaspora. Most men who have a homeland will strive for civic virtue, putting their homeland above themselves (or at least, they claim they do, and make a show of it). Without a homeland, Jews have put Jews first, prioritizing their own interests above that of whatever nation they've resided in. This is why in nearly every country that has expunged them, the native people claim that they are undermining the health and wellbeing of the nation for their own interests and profit.
If what you say is true, did you not just make a case that what Jews need is a homeland, and relief from their diaspora?
No Lee, that's not true. It is not Christian theology that all humans are God's children.
John 1:11-13
English Standard Version
11 He came to his own,[a] and his own people[b] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Anna, I would say that all are God's children, and many reject Him. To be created in the image of God is to be a child of God, Genesis 1:27. And as you quote, "He came to his own," that is, to His children. And God does desire all to turn to Christ, and to live. Ezekiel 18:21-23, Ezekiel 33:11, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Matthew 23:37. For those who reject, repentance and turning to acceptance is always possible for so long as mortal life continues. I would say that those who have rejected their innate status as children of God have the opportunity, continuing opportunity, to return to that status.
You, I and anybody can say anything.. It's what God has spoken by HIS Word, not ours. We must ask & pray for understanding, BEG for it, if are hearts have been enabled to receive the truth, you will receive it by HIS grace.🙏
God established a covenant with Israel for a specific purpose. God re-established Israel for a specific purpose. Namely to make Himself known. Israel reveals from its genesis to the end-of-days, in entirety, the mercy of God. This truth is cause for great rejoicing. No man, nor satan himself, will thwart the plans & purposes of God. Amen.
Ps 2:6; Ez 36:22-37:28; Dan 9:24-27; Zech 12-14; Rom 11; Rev 7 to name but a few.
Eph. 2:8-10; 4:22-24, John 6:44, Romans 9:13-24.
The Elect, chosen by God from before eternity past. Gal.3:13-14, etc.
"The Lord said to Cain, 'Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.' " Genesis 4:6.
"If you do well, will you not be accepted?" Is this not God, telling Cain he has the power of choice?
"But Lord, I cannot do well. I am predestined as not among Your elect."
"Yes. I know. I'm just messing with you."
No. I do not think so.
The Bible, Old Testament and New, is one long, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, urging by God to us to make the right choices, that we may be received to His kingdom. Why does He urge, if all of His urging is meaningless, because He has preselected? And what do you do with the passages that I cited, that God desires all to be saved?
Eternal contradiction. Eternal mystery. Neither you nor I will resolve it. No one ever has. But I feel it necessary to choose one or the other. "Got to be this or that," as a blues song says. And I choose free will, since I believe life to be devoid of meaning without it.
Lee, salvation is completely of the Lord! You must be born again by the Spirit or one cannot even see the Kingdom of God, let alone choose wisely! Man has absolutely nothing to bring but his sin when it comes to salvation. That's it! Until the Lord granted me,in His grace, understanding, I too was confused like you. 🙏's Lee😊
If we have "absolutely nothing" to bring, then absolutely nothing is what we are. If it somehow comforts you to believe you are absolutely nothing, and everyone else is also, and we all have no more meaning than a robot, or a stone, then believe that. I do not. One question: Why does God choose to elect stone you, and stone others, while not electing other stone others? What is the guide to His decision making there? Or why did the Lord confer His grace of understanding upon stone you, and not upon other stones? After all, you had "absolutely nothing" to do with that, since you and everyone else have "absolutely nothing" to bring. To ask my question in another way, why does God care, why should He even have grace, upon ANY "absolutely nothing" stone?
I appreciate this teaching so much JD. I especially appreciate you highlighting the meaning of Romans 1118. That unlocked a key for me. I'm also really looking forward to going back and reading your previous work on."Not of Abraham & "Unrelated to Abraham."
BTW – I received a masters degree from a dispensational Baptist seminary, and the only class in which I didn't get an A was in Eschatology. I think it's because the grammatical historical hermeneutic that I'd been taught in that seminary overcame the eschatology I was learning. I found the dispensational eschatology very confusing, and it didn't match up with what I was reading in the text.
I greatly appreciate the dispensational love for the authority of Scripture, and for their desire to study not just the New Testament Scriptures, but also the Old Testament Scriptures. And I understand why they want to maintain a distinction between Israel and the church....but I think that Romans 11:18 text acknowledges the difference while clearly stating that we are one in Christ (all of us are Israel) – as was the point of your blog post today. Thank you.
Thank you again for correctly putting dispensationalism into the dustbin of theological lunacy. I thank God that Scripture finally laid bare the misguided fantasy I steadfastly held to for over 40 years.
Also, thank you for correctly pointing out that God's chosen is His church. Through the generations, nothing has invalidated the prophetic message of blessings and curses to the Jewish people.
Tucker is based